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@beyasal said:

@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
@Plebeian said:
@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
I don't disagree with you, but, what are they supposed to do?
Choose not to voice the player character would be the most direct solution. @DaelonDuluc2016 said:
They cannot possibly offer all the different voices that anyone would want?  Where would they find the time and all the voice actors?
Or try this!  I've argued for this before; doing something along these lines would be perfectly possible.  It's just that no developer has taken the time to do it before.  A single, professionally trained actor can easily produce 3+ very distinct performances for a single character.  A really talented voice actor can drum up amazingly unique voices.  (Look at people like Mark Hamill and Hank Azaria.) Plus, as an actor with quite a range myself, I would probably jump at the chance to do the same role 3 or 4 different ways.  That would be a really fun challenge -- more fun than challenge!  While my vote is still for "no voiced protagonist in Beth games", I'd rather see them go all-out if they try it again. Finding the time would be like any other endeavor.  Make the time.  I think the biggest challenge would be allowing the actors to rest their voices as needed.  But with production cycles for Beth games spanning 3-5 years...I wouldn't be stressed.  I would say 3 male and 3 female actors, 2 or 3 "performances" each.  Keep lines under 10,000.  I'd give a good month of actual studio time, as actors might push it with altered vocals and wind up needing a few days rest to recover their voice.  It only takes a day to rattle off thousands of lines.
 I do not want silence.
So what?  Why waste the resources.  Let's hire a dozen people to offer a variety of voices.  Why?  What's the point.
This whole "immersive" experience thing is a played out argument.  The game is as immersive as YOU make it. 
Games are not going to cater to your wants.
Keep lines under 10K?  Who are you kidding.  Can you imagine what it would take and what kind of processing power it would take to have 6x3x10K performance lines available and keep them straight?  
It's just my opinion, but I'm a realist.  They are not going back.  The voiced protagonist is what is happening.
We have to learn to deal with it.  And, no, their budget is already completely bloated trying to satisfy all the "wants" for game play, I doubt if they'd waste their time on voices just so the "immersion" crowd can get a tiny fix.
 
And how do you propose they make a voiced protagonist work for TES, all the specifically distinct races all talking with the same voice and accent?

 And this is a false equivalency. We're talking about Fallout here.  You have the option to play a human.  That's it.  Maybe in F5 you have the option of playing a ghoul or maybe something else so you'll need a 2nd voice-set - 1 male, 1 female.  TES is a different animal, but it is still possible.

Either give me a fully voiced protag or give me nothing.  If I cannot speak then I don't want grunting, laughing or any of that other guff.  It just makes me sound insane.  Unable to speak but able to grunt or laugh?  


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@DaelonDuluc2016 said:

@beyasal said:
@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
@Plebeian said:
@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
I don't disagree with you, but, what are they supposed to do?
Choose not to voice the player character would be the most direct solution. @DaelonDuluc2016 said:
They cannot possibly offer all the different voices that anyone would want?  Where would they find the time and all the voice actors?
Or try this!  I've argued for this before; doing something along these lines would be perfectly possible.  It's just that no developer has taken the time to do it before.  A single, professionally trained actor can easily produce 3+ very distinct performances for a single character.  A really talented voice actor can drum up amazingly unique voices.  (Look at people like Mark Hamill and Hank Azaria.) Plus, as an actor with quite a range myself, I would probably jump at the chance to do the same role 3 or 4 different ways.  That would be a really fun challenge -- more fun than challenge!  While my vote is still for "no voiced protagonist in Beth games", I'd rather see them go all-out if they try it again. Finding the time would be like any other endeavor.  Make the time.  I think the biggest challenge would be allowing the actors to rest their voices as needed.  But with production cycles for Beth games spanning 3-5 years...I wouldn't be stressed.  I would say 3 male and 3 female actors, 2 or 3 "performances" each.  Keep lines under 10,000.  I'd give a good month of actual studio time, as actors might push it with altered vocals and wind up needing a few days rest to recover their voice.  It only takes a day to rattle off thousands of lines.
 I do not want silence. So what?  Why waste the resources.  Let's hire a dozen people to offer a variety of voices.  Why?  What's the point. This whole "immersive" experience thing is a played out argument.  The game is as immersive as YOU make it.  Games are not going to cater to your wants. Keep lines under 10K?  Who are you kidding.  Can you imagine what it would take and what kind of processing power it would take to have 6x3x10K performance lines available and keep them straight?   It's just my opinion, but I'm a realist.  They are not going back.  The voiced protagonist is what is happening. We have to learn to deal with it.  And, no, their budget is already completely bloated trying to satisfy all the "wants" for game play, I doubt if they'd waste their time on voices just so the "immersion" crowd can get a tiny fix.
  And how do you propose they make a voiced protagonist work for TES, all the specifically distinct races all talking with the same voice and accent?
 One voice per race. One male, one female.  And move on.  If you don't like it then use a mod that makes you silent.  The majority of players couldn't give a [censored].

 

weren't you just berating plebeian for his suggestion of using multiple voice actors?


So Vivec, who had a grain of Ayem's mercy, set about to teach Molag Bal in the ways of belly-magic. They took their spears out and compared them


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@DaelonDuluc2016 said:

So what?  Why waste the resources.  Let's hire a dozen people to offer a variety of voices.  Why?  What's the point.

Well, two reasons for a video game.  Actors are usually recording alone.  Once someone is familiar with the concept, it's often easier and better for the final result to utilize the same actors if they can (and are willing) to do the additional parts.  Voice acting can be quite tricky to nail without the other performance(s) opposite your own.  Every new actor brought on board is like starting at the beginning again.

There's nothing stopping them from hiring individual actors, though!  It would just be more moving parts.

 

@DaelonDuluc2016 said:

This whole "immersive" experience thing is a played out argument.  The game is as immersive as YOU make it. Games are not going to cater to your wants.

Yes and no.  There are plenty of games that go the extra mile and include those little aspects to really suck the player in.  Aside from Beth games, I could shout out to the purposefully incomplete maps and "practical" level design of the original Thief series, or the realistic bullet snaps if you're shot at in ArmA, or the fact that Geralt casually moves his scabbard into position when sheathing his sword in TW3.  That's the difference (to me at least) between a game that's fun to play and one that immerses you completely.  Attention to detail.  I would call that level of effort catering to immersion.

@DaelonDuluc2016 said:

Keep lines under 10K?  Who are you kidding.  Can you imagine what it would take and what kind of processing power it would take to have 6x3x10K performance lines available and keep them straight?  

???  It would work just like it does now.  A single voice-pack for each character.  The total number available doesn't matter, it only loads one pack at a time.  Besides, Star Wars: The Old Republic currently clocks in at over 200,000 lines of dialogue.  During online multiplayer.  The only reason more companies haven't done anything like I'm suggesting yet is because the actors would eat into the budget and schedule.  (And because doing things for the first time is always so scary. 😜

 @DaelonDuluc2016 said:

It's just my opinion, but I'm a realist.  They are not going back.  The voiced protagonist is what is happening.We have to learn to deal with it.  And, no, their budget is already completely bloated trying to satisfy all the "wants" for game play, I doubt if they'd waste their time on voices just so the "immersion" crowd can get a tiny fix.

I wouldn't start a rebellion if they do voices with Fallout 5, but I would prefer not.  I would outright jump in an X-Wing and proton-torpedo their parking lot if they go there with TES 6.  But if voices are going to be the thing...surprise people!  (The good way.)


Alright...I'm gonna count to -one-.


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@beyasal said:

@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
@beyasal said:
TES and fallout are not the types of games that are made for a voiced protagonist
 Why?  And you have not given reasons, you have given your opinion.
Personally, I could care less, but I can understand why you feel that a character you create from the ground up does not need a voice.  You want to "imagine" your own voice and it breaks re-play value for you.
Fine.  That is your opinion.
I prefer a voiced protag rather than a dead lump standing there while everybody else speaks.
It is the way that games are going and they are not going to remove it.  Almost every other developer now uses a voiced protag (obviously, there must be some research on the developer's part that has caused this) so we either get used to it and move on or we continue to complain.
I, personally, am tired of complaining and whining and the constant "need" to instruct a company that is, after all, in the business of making money and really couldn't give a flyin' fig about us individually.  If it's not the voice, it's the mechanics, or the plotlines, or the graphics or the sound or whatever...
I say, get over it and move on.  If you don't like it, either learn to deal with it or play something else.
I, for one, am incredibly tired of this.  It's been over a year now and it is time to accept that this is the game and that this is the direction that gaming has and is moving.
Nostalgia goggles wanting to return games to the "way they were" is foolish.  It is time to move on.
 
simply answer this; would a charisma 1 and charisma 10, intelligence 1 and intelligence 10 character have the exact same voice and way of speaking?
stop using cliched arguments, defend the logic behind it if you can instead of going on about things like nostalgia.

 Why not?  What difference does it make?  I am talking about cost effective mechanics.  Who really cares?  Your character is voice simply to move the game forward.  I know you would prefer silence (maybe with some insane grunting and laughing) with "text" choices on a wheel (or a list, or whatever), preferably number in the thousands for you to choose from, but, again, that is nostalgia.  The game moves forward.  It does not matter.

A charisma 1 or a charisma 10, an intelligence 1, an intelligence 10 - who cares?  Why do you insist on focusing on the minutiae that doesn't matter in the least.

I can't imagine any company wanting to spend all that money to hire all those actors to do a protag in a thousand varieties.  Your original argument of hiring maybe 3 men and 3 women to do 3 voices each is now blown out of the water.  Now, not only do you want 3 voices per gender but you want different voices for each level of intelligence and/or charisma.  Let's go further:  Your science is high so you would speak differently than if it was low.  You have different ranks in factions, so you'd need different voices.  And on and on.

It's just a voice!  

There is no logic in your argument.

Gaming is a business.  Gaming caters to what sells.  At this point, a voiced protag sells and the majority of people couldn't care less if the protag has the same voice as long as the gender is right.

You go where the money is, not go where you need to pander to complicated and expensive "wants" from a percentage of players that do nothing but complain.

Why do we have settlement building?  Because it is popular and people have requested the mechanic in the Fallout series for a long time (same thing with HearthFire in TES).  Why do we have a voiced protag?  Because it has been popular in other series and has proven to be popular here.  Why is it more shooter than deep immersion classic RPG?  Because deep immersion classic RPG is not what sells.  Why have perks and skills been simplified?  Because it was requested.

It's simple.  As a business, you cater to the wants of the majority of players of ALL games, industry wide, to try to create a wide a player base as you can.  Who cares if you honk off some of you "nostalgia goggled" base.  They'll buy it anyway and complain about it, but you're used to that since they've done the same thing with every game.

It is not a difficult concept.  Business is business.  If you don't like it, who cares.

I'm out of this discussion.

I have an opinion.  If you don't like it, I am sorry, but I am a realist and a pragmatist.  I will play the game because I love the game, just the way it is.  It is not the same as the previous games.  Shocking!  It has evolved. Live with it. 


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@DaelonDuluc2016 said:

@beyasal said:
@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
@beyasal said:
TES and fallout are not the types of games that are made for a voiced protagonist
 Why?  And you have not given reasons, you have given your opinion. Personally, I could care less, but I can understand why you feel that a character you create from the ground up does not need a voice.  You want to "imagine" your own voice and it breaks re-play value for you. Fine.  That is your opinion. I prefer a voiced protag rather than a dead lump standing there while everybody else speaks. It is the way that games are going and they are not going to remove it.  Almost every other developer now uses a voiced protag (obviously, there must be some research on the developer's part that has caused this) so we either get used to it and move on or we continue to complain. I, personally, am tired of complaining and whining and the constant "need" to instruct a company that is, after all, in the business of making money and really couldn't give a flyin' fig about us individually.  If it's not the voice, it's the mechanics, or the plotlines, or the graphics or the sound or whatever... I say, get over it and move on.  If you don't like it, either learn to deal with it or play something else. I, for one, am incredibly tired of this.  It's been over a year now and it is time to accept that this is the game and that this is the direction that gaming has and is moving. Nostalgia goggles wanting to return games to the "way they were" is foolish.  It is time to move on.
  simply answer this; would a charisma 1 and charisma 10, intelligence 1 and intelligence 10 character have the exact same voice and way of speaking? stop using cliched arguments, defend the logic behind it if you can instead of going on about things like nostalgia.
 Why not?  What difference does it make?  I am talking about cost effective mechanics.  Who really cares?  Your character is voice simply to move the game forward.  I know you would prefer silence (maybe with some insane grunting and laughing) with "text" choices on a wheel (or a list, or whatever), preferably number in the thousands for you to choose from, but, again, that is nostalgia.  The game moves forward.  It does not matter.
A charisma 1 or a charisma 10, an intelligence 1, an intelligence 10 - who cares?  Why do you insist on focusing on the minutiae that doesn't matter in the least.
I can't imagine any company wanting to spend all that money to hire all those actors to do a protag in a thousand varieties.  Your original argument of hiring maybe 3 men and 3 women to do 3 voices each is now blown out of the water.  Now, not only do you want 3 voices per gender but you want different voices for each level of intelligence and/or charisma.  Let's go further:  Your science is high so you would speak differently than if it was low.  You have different ranks in factions, so you'd need different voices.  And on and on.
It's just a voice!  
There is no logic in your argument.
Gaming is a business.  Gaming caters to what sells.  At this point, a voiced protag sells and the majority of people couldn't care less if the protag has the same voice as long as the gender is right.
You go where the money is, not go where you need to pander to complicated and expensive "wants" from a percentage of players that do nothing but complain.
Why do we have settlement building?  Because it is popular and people have requested the mechanic in the Fallout series for a long time (same thing with HearthFire in TES).  Why do we have a voiced protag?  Because it has been popular in other series and has proven to be popular here.  Why is it more shooter than deep immersion classic RPG?  Because deep immersion classic RPG is not what sells.  Why have perks and skills been simplified?  Because it was requested.
It's simple.  As a business, you cater to the wants of the majority of players of ALL games, industry wide, to try to create a wide a player base as you can.  Who cares if you honk off some of you "nostalgia goggled" base.  They'll buy it anyway and complain about it, but you're used to that since they've done the same thing with every game.
It is not a difficult concept.  Business is business.  If you don't like it, who cares.
I'm out of this discussion.
I have an opinion.  If you don't like it, I am sorry, but I am a realist and a pragmatist.  I will play the game because I love the game, just the way it is.  It is not the same as the previous games.  Shocking!  It has evolved. Live with it. 

 

I think you are somewhat confused, not only are you mixing up who stated what you have also completely missed the point.

The point is, giving a high level of customisation to create the protagonist instead of giving a fixed one or a selection of a couple of fixed ones and the concept of having a voiced protagonist does not compliment each other but creates a character conflict.

Let me ask the same thing in reverse, if the protagonist is going to sound the same what is the point of allowing the player to determine characteristics such as intelligence and charisma?

and I will repeat, Shepard will always be Shepard, Geralt will always be Geralt, but in fallout and TES you the player are the one who creates the protagonist.

You cannot have your cake and eat it, Bethesda has to decide which approach they want to take because the two approaches do not mix.


So Vivec, who had a grain of Ayem's mercy, set about to teach Molag Bal in the ways of belly-magic. They took their spears out and compared them


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@DaelonDuluc2016 said:

Why do we have settlement building?  Because it is popular and people have requested the mechanic in the Fallout series for a long time (same thing with HearthFire in TES).  Why do we have a voiced protag?  Because it has been popular in other series and has proven to be popular here.  Why is it more shooter than deep immersion classic RPG?  Because deep immersion classic RPG is not what sells.  Why have perks and skills been simplified?  Because it was requested.

 We have settlement building because mod makers showed it could work since FO3 but not everybody downloaded those mods, so only some people requested it. Why the 'Voice' as with other things in FO4 they copy other popular Dev's without thinking it through properly, it work in Witcher because you play one character but not in TES or Fallout for the reasons others already give, it does not fit in with the game. Fallout always a shooter and a RPG they simplify FO4 so those who prefer easier games not struggle. As to Perks that again just a copy of other games, Skyrim had a system that worked fine, no one really complain from what I saw. Perks do not fit in with the game any better than the voice does, I build houses I gain a Perk point but no House Building Perk so i get to shoot better, that insane?


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@beyasal said:

@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
@beyasal said:
@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
@beyasal said:
TES and fallout are not the types of games that are made for a voiced protagonist
 Why?  And you have not given reasons, you have given your opinion. Personally, I could care less, but I can understand why you feel that a character you create from the ground up does not need a voice.  You want to "imagine" your own voice and it breaks re-play value for you. Fine.  That is your opinion. I prefer a voiced protag rather than a dead lump standing there while everybody else speaks. It is the way that games are going and they are not going to remove it.  Almost every other developer now uses a voiced protag (obviously, there must be some research on the developer's part that has caused this) so we either get used to it and move on or we continue to complain. I, personally, am tired of complaining and whining and the constant "need" to instruct a company that is, after all, in the business of making money and really couldn't give a flyin' fig about us individually.  If it's not the voice, it's the mechanics, or the plotlines, or the graphics or the sound or whatever... I say, get over it and move on.  If you don't like it, either learn to deal with it or play something else. I, for one, am incredibly tired of this.  It's been over a year now and it is time to accept that this is the game and that this is the direction that gaming has and is moving. Nostalgia goggles wanting to return games to the "way they were" is foolish.  It is time to move on.
  simply answer this; would a charisma 1 and charisma 10, intelligence 1 and intelligence 10 character have the exact same voice and way of speaking? stop using cliched arguments, defend the logic behind it if you can instead of going on about things like nostalgia.
 Why not?  What difference does it make?  I am talking about cost effective mechanics.  Who really cares?  Your character is voice simply to move the game forward.  I know you would prefer silence (maybe with some insane grunting and laughing) with "text" choices on a wheel (or a list, or whatever), preferably number in the thousands for you to choose from, but, again, that is nostalgia.  The game moves forward.  It does not matter.
A charisma 1 or a charisma 10, an intelligence 1, an intelligence 10 - who cares?  Why do you insist on focusing on the minutiae that doesn't matter in the least.
I can't imagine any company wanting to spend all that money to hire all those actors to do a protag in a thousand varieties.  Your original argument of hiring maybe 3 men and 3 women to do 3 voices each is now blown out of the water.  Now, not only do you want 3 voices per gender but you want different voices for each level of intelligence and/or charisma.  Let's go further:  Your science is high so you would speak differently than if it was low.  You have different ranks in factions, so you'd need different voices.  And on and on.
It's just a voice!  
There is no logic in your argument.
Gaming is a business.  Gaming caters to what sells.  At this point, a voiced protag sells and the majority of people couldn't care less if the protag has the same voice as long as the gender is right.
You go where the money is, not go where you need to pander to complicated and expensive "wants" from a percentage of players that do nothing but complain.
Why do we have settlement building?  Because it is popular and people have requested the mechanic in the Fallout series for a long time (same thing with HearthFire in TES).  Why do we have a voiced protag?  Because it has been popular in other series and has proven to be popular here.  Why is it more shooter than deep immersion classic RPG?  Because deep immersion classic RPG is not what sells.  Why have perks and skills been simplified?  Because it was requested.
It's simple.  As a business, you cater to the wants of the majority of players of ALL games, industry wide, to try to create a wide a player base as you can.  Who cares if you honk off some of you "nostalgia goggled" base.  They'll buy it anyway and complain about it, but you're used to that since they've done the same thing with every game.
It is not a difficult concept.  Business is business.  If you don't like it, who cares.
I'm out of this discussion.
I have an opinion.  If you don't like it, I am sorry, but I am a realist and a pragmatist.  I will play the game because I love the game, just the way it is.  It is not the same as the previous games.  Shocking!  It has evolved. Live with it. 
 
I think you are somewhat confused, not only are you mixing up who stated what you have also completely missed the point.
The point is, giving a high level of customisation to create the protagonist instead of giving a fixed one or a selection of a couple of fixed ones and the concept of having a voiced protagonist does not make sense.
Let me ask the same thing in reverse, if the protagonist is going to sound the same what is the point of allowing the player to determine characteristics such as intelligence and charisma?
and I will repeat, Shepard will always be Shepard, Geralt will always be Geralt, but in fallout and TES you the player are the one who creates the protagonist.
You cannot have your cake and eat it, Bethesda has to decide which approach they want to take because the two approaches do not mix.

No offense to anyone, but you're trying to sell red meat to a vegetarian.  As much as I'm on your side with the whole immersion / no voice argument, @DaelonDuluc2016 is probably exemplifying Bethesda's own reasoning on the topic.  (And many other companies, besides.)

To throw a wrench into my own idea, I think it would behoove companies like Bioware or CD Projekt Red to do things like I'm suggesting more than it would ever behoove Bethesda.  Fact remains, Bethesda would also need to create dialogue that actors could interpret.  If the writing remains as it is now, there's not too much any actor can do except say it "neutrally"...now try to sound "short-tempered"...now make like "you don't care about anything"...and cut!  We're done!

I'm sure arguing for money and time to create a detail "most players won't care about" is exactly why this hasn't happened yet.  And it's also why the first company that pulls it off successfully will win all sorts of awards and acclaim for doing it.  (There was a time when spending all of the time that would be necessary to make 3D cloth actually move and wave like cloth was ridiculous.  Who in their right mind would spend all of that money and time coding so that a "flag" actually "blows in the breeze".  Give me a break!  Who even looks at the game that carefully!?)


Alright...I'm gonna count to -one-.


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@Plebeian said:

@beyasal said:
@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
@beyasal said:
@DaelonDuluc2016 said:
@beyasal said:
TES and fallout are not the types of games that are made for a voiced protagonist
 Why?  And you have not given reasons, you have given your opinion. Personally, I could care less, but I can understand why you feel that a character you create from the ground up does not need a voice.  You want to "imagine" your own voice and it breaks re-play value for you. Fine.  That is your opinion. I prefer a voiced protag rather than a dead lump standing there while everybody else speaks. It is the way that games are going and they are not going to remove it.  Almost every other developer now uses a voiced protag (obviously, there must be some research on the developer's part that has caused this) so we either get used to it and move on or we continue to complain. I, personally, am tired of complaining and whining and the constant "need" to instruct a company that is, after all, in the business of making money and really couldn't give a flyin' fig about us individually.  If it's not the voice, it's the mechanics, or the plotlines, or the graphics or the sound or whatever... I say, get over it and move on.  If you don't like it, either learn to deal with it or play something else. I, for one, am incredibly tired of this.  It's been over a year now and it is time to accept that this is the game and that this is the direction that gaming has and is moving. Nostalgia goggles wanting to return games to the "way they were" is foolish.  It is time to move on.
  simply answer this; would a charisma 1 and charisma 10, intelligence 1 and intelligence 10 character have the exact same voice and way of speaking? stop using cliched arguments, defend the logic behind it if you can instead of going on about things like nostalgia.
 Why not?  What difference does it make?  I am talking about cost effective mechanics.  Who really cares?  Your character is voice simply to move the game forward.  I know you would prefer silence (maybe with some insane grunting and laughing) with "text" choices on a wheel (or a list, or whatever), preferably number in the thousands for you to choose from, but, again, that is nostalgia.  The game moves forward.  It does not matter. A charisma 1 or a charisma 10, an intelligence 1, an intelligence 10 - who cares?  Why do you insist on focusing on the minutiae that doesn't matter in the least. I can't imagine any company wanting to spend all that money to hire all those actors to do a protag in a thousand varieties.  Your original argument of hiring maybe 3 men and 3 women to do 3 voices each is now blown out of the water.  Now, not only do you want 3 voices per gender but you want different voices for each level of intelligence and/or charisma.  Let's go further:  Your science is high so you would speak differently than if it was low.  You have different ranks in factions, so you'd need different voices.  And on and on. It's just a voice!   There is no logic in your argument. Gaming is a business.  Gaming caters to what sells.  At this point, a voiced protag sells and the majority of people couldn't care less if the protag has the same voice as long as the gender is right. You go where the money is, not go where you need to pander to complicated and expensive "wants" from a percentage of players that do nothing but complain. Why do we have settlement building?  Because it is popular and people have requested the mechanic in the Fallout series for a long time (same thing with HearthFire in TES).  Why do we have a voiced protag?  Because it has been popular in other series and has proven to be popular here.  Why is it more shooter than deep immersion classic RPG?  Because deep immersion classic RPG is not what sells.  Why have perks and skills been simplified?  Because it was requested. It's simple.  As a business, you cater to the wants of the majority of players of ALL games, industry wide, to try to create a wide a player base as you can.  Who cares if you honk off some of you "nostalgia goggled" base.  They'll buy it anyway and complain about it, but you're used to that since they've done the same thing with every game. It is not a difficult concept.  Business is business.  If you don't like it, who cares. I'm out of this discussion. I have an opinion.  If you don't like it, I am sorry, but I am a realist and a pragmatist.  I will play the game because I love the game, just the way it is.  It is not the same as the previous games.  Shocking!  It has evolved. Live with it. 
 
I think you are somewhat confused, not only are you mixing up who stated what you have also completely missed the point. The point is, giving a high level of customisation to create the protagonist instead of giving a fixed one or a selection of a couple of fixed ones and the concept of having a voiced protagonist does not make sense. Let me ask the same thing in reverse, if the protagonist is going to sound the same what is the point of allowing the player to determine characteristics such as intelligence and charisma? and I will repeat, Shepard will always be Shepard, Geralt will always be Geralt, but in fallout and TES you the player are the one who creates the protagonist. You cannot have your cake and eat it, Bethesda has to decide which approach they want to take because the two approaches do not mix.
No offense to anyone, but you're trying to sell red meat to a vegetarian.  As much as I'm on your side with the whole immersion / no voice argument, @DaelonDuluc2016 is probably exemplifying Bethesda's own reasoning on the topic.  (And many other companies, besides.)
To throw a wrench into my own idea, I think it would behoove companies like Bioware or CD Projekt Red to do things like I'm suggesting more than it would ever behoove Bethesda.  Fact remains, Bethesda would also need to create dialogue that actors could interpret.  If the writing remains as it is now, there's not too much any actor can do except say it "neutrally"...now try to sound "short-tempered"...now make like "you don't care about anything"...and cut!  We're done!
I'm sure arguing for money and time to create a detail "most players won't care about" is exactly why this hasn't happened yet.  And it's also why the first company that pulls it off successfully will win all sorts of awards and acclaim for doing it.  (There was a time when spending all of the time that would be necessary to make 3D cloth actually move and wave like cloth was ridiculous.  Who in their right mind would spend all of that money and time coding so that a "flag" actually "blows in the breeze".  Give me a break!  Who even looks at the game that carefully!?)

 

Bethesda has always had problems getting around how the whole SPECIAL system works, they have made the problem worse with adding a voice and fixed characteristics to the protagonist, now you have a SPECIAL system which has become  completely detached from the actual character itself, 

In TES they do not have to deal with SPECIAL but there they will be faced with multiple races.  If they insist on the voiced protagonist how they are going to get around that will be interesting to see.

But whichever way they handle it, things like having a voiced protagonist go against the whole concept of creating your own character as the voice will display emotions that may not fit the character you want to create.

If they are going to insist on having voiced protagonists from now on they will have to also break away from their classical character creation approach.


So Vivec, who had a grain of Ayem's mercy, set about to teach Molag Bal in the ways of belly-magic. They took their spears out and compared them