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Make FO4 Immersive Again!


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Sorry, just had too.

Anyways, what would you recommend to make Fallout 4/5 more immersive for you or others.


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I didn't necessarily "like" the repair mechanics in other Fallout games , but they did make it more "immersive" to me. I did like the fact that if your weapon was not in good repair , it would malfunction ( I remember having to clear a jammed weapon , at the worst possible time , more than once ) and if your armor had degraded too much it wouldn't provide the same protection . I would like to see an ability to "maintain" your weapon ( cleaning or replacing parts after so many rounds ) , but I don't know how one would implement a "repair" on armor , unless you had removable plates ( but that would limit the types of armor that could be used ) . That is my two cents worth anyway .


Updated Load Order FAQ and Assistance Thread , Post 1.10 Patch


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Script rewrite so some other faction besides the institute doesn't want the place blown up.   A.  Its a nice place, unless you go institute not much time spent there.   B.  The MM wanting to blow the place up never settled well with me.  We have DC, Bunker hill and others nearby preston....large detonations not very wise.    Nor is  new source of nuclear materials just sitting there.   I know these people are hardy but [censored]...they don't need to be  hardier from living by a popped nuclear reactor.

A destroyable MM.  If one has the urge to go on a killing spree, for fun or idealogical reasons, 3 factions are open season  base game.   Go really crazy in the DLC's and well you can purge there too. Bethesda went with a yes man setup here probably to give 1 logical way to end the game.  Its a poor implementation.  Why yes man is immortal makes sense...house made lots of securitrons.  And when you do your no gods no masters ending....yes man goes away.   The mojave has its true independent ending.  No power remains, not even yes man.  He goes off to soul search as best a robot can.     I found this immersive...having all choices possible, even a totally wide open region with no power base left at the end.    

Better weapons selection.   I should not need to use mods for weapons that should been there either from they would be in the timeline (colts ubiquitous sidearm,  a semi-auto 45 pistol)  or have been in other games.   A 50 caliber gun that is not useless mid to late game/higher levels.   Like the AMG, NV's weapon that said here you go, present to the non energy weapons players at higher levels.     I find having to use gauss immersion breaking  (its not a true ballistic weapon to me,  its hybrid heavy and energy one imo)   And needed since at some point...50 cal sniper/hunting rilfe succeeds in one thing...jsut making your enemies aggravated lol.   So I turn to large bore sniper rifle mods for this.  Many have some imba...you pick how imba you want it to be really.   

Lose or modiffy the legendary crap.  For Modify I am eyeing let us pull the prefix and put on a weapon/armour we like.  Sad but true fact...the only time in over 400 hours of game play I have gotten an instigating hunting/sniper rifle is using a cheat mod to place the prefix on it. The amount of crap weapons I have not wanted I am not short on. Aww yeah....another legendary walking cane. for balance make this high cost,  I could dig that.      

 


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Some pretty good stuff.

Weapons- They need to be reworked. Like the Drum Barrel for the Combat Shotgun, 100 rounds. Yah as unimpressive as you can physically get. .50 Caliber rifle shouldn't be obtainable from a .308 Caliber. Not only will the bore need to be expanded but it will need to be thickened like crazy to withstand the force of such a large bullet being fired. Also, it should actually hurt anyone not in Power Armor. I mean, it's a very large bullet and hurts to fire, so yah, not in Power Armor should actually hurt you to fire it.


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@desslok2870 said:

I didn't necessarily "like" the repair mechanics in other Fallout games , but they did make it more "immersive" to me. I did like the fact that if your weapon was not in good repair , it would malfunction ( I remember having to clear a jammed weapon , at the worst possible time , more than once ) and if your armor had degraded too much it wouldn't provide the same protection . I would like to see an ability to "maintain" your weapon ( cleaning or replacing parts after so many rounds ) , but I don't know how one would implement a "repair" on armor , unless you had removable plates ( but that would limit the types of armor that could be used ) . That is my two cents worth anyway .

Yes repair was real but needed mods to make it work better, FO3 had many mod ideas for that, repair kit I think was introduced in New Vegas? That was also expanded on to fix armor as well by mods, I made a little one to add more ways to fix things. If Bethesda had listen to mod makers and many players who make the idea work properly we maybe still have repair. Bethesda listen to those who complain about vanilla bad ideas and get rid of it, we could have still had a good working repair system that everyone like?

Problem is also that mechanic (maths or script?) to work out damage against weapon and bonuses take more to make work properly, no repair at all makes it easier to build game? Even the Power Armor repair we still have is fake, not based on amount of damage taken all repairs use same items i think? So yes bring back repair but look back at how we added ways to make repairs work better and please get rid of expanding weapons into ways that cannot be done, just make Bethesda look very stupid and as I have said elewhere it makes it all look more just like a game, nothing real anymore. 

Oh and while we on topic maybe get someone who is right handed to make some of the gun and workbench models, some guns where made for use with left hand, funny but bad game making?


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^^

They removed weapons and armour degradation with skyrim and added upgrading mechanisms instead.

so basically, instead of your items getting worse over time and you having to repair them to get their maximum stats back they made it so that base weapons and armour never get worse but you can make them even better  (the relative skills were directed at gaining the ability to make items better, instead of repairing them to maintain their condition)

obviously they were catering to a certain sort of mind set who cannot live with consequences but always wants to be rewarded. 


So Vivec, who had a grain of Ayem's mercy, set about to teach Molag Bal in the ways of belly-magic. They took their spears out and compared them


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@beyasal said:

obviously they were catering to a certain sort of mind set who cannot live with consequences but always wants to be rewarded. 

lol, very true, adding upgrading that is sometimes actually impossible is also easier to make than a full repair system as I said, we have weapon upgrades in a mod in FO3 and repair systems? what is that consequences and rewards all in one game, Wow.


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@MarianHawke said:

Sorry, just had too.
Anyways, what would you recommend to make Fallout 4/5 more immersive for you or others.

 My fallout 4 is very immersive. It's called "mods" - might wnat to try. Thing is bethesda games are not just "out of teh box games" like other games, those are platforms for community tweaks, changes and  often community can change the game so much its barely what Bethesda made. 


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@kyra said:

@MarianHawke said:
Sorry, just had too.
Anyways, what would you recommend to make Fallout 4/5 more immersive for you or others.
 My fallout 4 is very immersive. It's called "mods" - might wnat to try. Thing is bethesda games are not just "out of teh box games" like other games, those are platforms for community tweaks, changes and  often community can change the game so much its barely what Bethesda made. 

 Hard to remember what a vanilla Bethesda game feels like anymore, the first hundred? I don't know how many hours are really finding what is different and what does not work for you the players? Then the wait for something like Edit to get first released to start making the game yours, I stop for a while until I could make changes to the game things that was just to annoying for me to go on with. FO4 is hard to become immersive for me for only one main reason, character development the removal of skills and addition of perks is game breaker for FO4 to be a top Bethesda game to me. World space works, NPC do work, some factions and stories work, upgrading is awful design, PA look ridiculous but those not effect immersion, i cannot be a Bethesda game character like older game, not a good change I think?


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@FreyjaIceDragon said:

@kyra said:
@MarianHawke said:
Sorry, just had too.
Anyways, what would you recommend to make Fallout 4/5 more immersive for you or others.
 My fallout 4 is very immersive. It's called "mods" - might wnat to try. Thing is bethesda games are not just "out of teh box games" like other games, those are platforms for community tweaks, changes and  often community can change the game so much its barely what Bethesda made. 
 Hard to remember what a vanilla Bethesda game feels like anymore, the first hundred? I don't know how many hours are really finding what is different and what does not work for you the players? Then the wait for something like Edit to get first released to start making the game yours, I stop for a while until I could make changes to the game things that was just to annoying for me to go on with. FO4 is hard to become immersive for me for only one main reason, character development the removal of skills and addition of perks is game breaker for FO4 to be a top Bethesda game to me. World space works, NPC do work, some factions and stories work, upgrading is awful design, PA look ridiculous but those not effect immersion, i cannot be a Bethesda game character like older game, not a good change I think?

Depends of character skills. We should split the 2 levels of character development. 

Combat skills you can pick and do  are better in FO4 than new vegas, because New vegas had technical and balance flaw that pretty much forced you to use  certain weapons (least on survival). What FO4 lacks on character build, for me, is not combat related.  It's more of dialogue based. And that I cannot change much. But combat is definitely better balanced in FO4.  I can play any style in any difficulty. 

However SPECIAL based dialogues and nature of character is indeed one of few things FO4 falls short on and unfortunately this is one thing players cannot edit or change that easily. Probably and partially also due to voiced protagonist. While doable (some mods alter player character speech), it is a tedious process and take advanced skills. The  4 dialogue options and no reference to particular SPECIAL traits is what  I most certainly would like to see improvements on.   I'd like to see fundamental difference on problem solving for someone with high strength, or high intelligence. 


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@kyra said:

Combat skills you can pick and do  are better in FO4 than new vegas, because New vegas had technical and balance flaw that pretty much forced you to use  certain weapons (least on survival). What FO4 lacks on character build, for me, is not combat related.  It's more of dialogue based. And that I cannot change much. But combat is definitely better balanced in FO4.  I can play any style in any difficulty. 

 Combat skills i see what you say, I not like you can can get rifle skill because I earned a new skill level building house in Sanctuary, that what I mean. I read things for long time before say things and I know some think the FO4 way is good, for me getting better in a skill is done by doing that skill, not doing anything else and then pick a perk. I suppose it is possible to get some perks and never ever do anything with them, just add a point when you reach the right level, I not make any sense how that makes anyone feel that they developed their character skills.


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@FreyjaIceDragon said:

@kyra said:
Combat skills you can pick and do  are better in FO4 than new vegas, because New vegas had technical and balance flaw that pretty much forced you to use  certain weapons (least on survival). What FO4 lacks on character build, for me, is not combat related.  It's more of dialogue based. And that I cannot change much. But combat is definitely better balanced in FO4.  I can play any style in any difficulty. 
 Combat skills i see what you say, I not like you can can get rifle skill because I earned a new skill level building house in Sanctuary, that what I mean. I read things for long time before say things and I know some think the FO4 way is good, for me getting better in a skill is done by doing that skill, not doing anything else and then pick a perk. I suppose it is possible to get some perks and never ever do anything with them, just add a point when you reach the right level, I not make any sense how that makes anyone feel that they developed their character skills.

 I mean mainly here the freedom to choose the way  you want to battle. Be it heavy weapons, explosives, melee, handguns (automatics  fall behind though)  - you can do it on survival too. Because you do not need perks on FO4  in reality to fight enemies on your own way.  I call it a player freedom.  However in new Vegas  even when I had perks to support, I couldn't get trough game as only melee, or using laser weapons, or  focusing more sniper build. I just got annihilated on melee despite maxed out perks and even when i tried all sorts of wits like chems, tactical thinking and such - some combat builds simply did not unction in survival. 

But New Vegas made that up by again on 'story mode' where your character was able to build more unique personality trough dialogue options.  

For me personally FO4 and New vegas are same level  games. Where one falls flat, other excels and visa versa. They are like twin brothers split on birth.  I could pinpoint so many things and say : this game sucks on it - that other does near perfect and then look other game and say "nope no" and look how 1st game does it just right.  If I am supposed to give 10 point ratings, I think both would end up getting same  amount of points. 


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Well, I'd like it if there were seasons. Time passes so quickly in FO4, it'd be nice if the passage of time mattered more. Longer days and nights. 

And I'd like it if food went bad. You could make jerky, but eating food just cooked up on a fire would go bad after a week. However maybe it'd offer worthwhile bonuses as opposed to jerky?

Also, slower walking speeds, yet other modes for travel. Surely we can fix up a motorcycle. And if we can upkeep a suit of power armor, why not a motorcycle? Companions either hop on back, or get their own separate motorcycle.


As i was going up the stair-
I saw a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today-
I wish, i wish, he'd go away.


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@desslok2870 said:

I didn't necessarily "like" the repair mechanics in other Fallout games , but they did make it more "immersive" to me. I did like the fact that if your weapon was not in good repair , it would malfunction ( I remember having to clear a jammed weapon , at the worst possible time , more than once ) and if your armor had degraded too much it wouldn't provide the same protection . I would like to see an ability to "maintain" your weapon ( cleaning or replacing parts after so many rounds ) , but I don't know how one would implement a "repair" on armor , unless you had removable plates ( but that would limit the types of armor that could be used ) . That is my two cents worth anyway .

 Yeah it would be good to have this again and overhaul it completely at the same time.  For instance, I always thought weapons degraded far too quickly in Fallout 3/New Vegas.  You fire about 20 rounds in your hunting rifle and it has noticeable degradation and decreased damage.  

In addition, it would be great if the weapons and armor actually looked different as they get damaged.  If I wear combat armor into battle and I'm taking significant damage, it would be awesome to actually see holes, scorch marks and other damage start appearing in my armor.  This is in no way out of the realm of possibility because other games have had visible clothing/armor damage as you become injured.  If I'm wearing a vault suit out in the world, it should begin to tear and become dirty as I have prolonged usage.


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@Lucid_Lady said:

Well, I'd like it if there were seasons. Time passes so quickly in FO4, it'd be nice if the passage of time mattered more. Longer days and nights. 
And I'd like it if food went bad. You could make jerky, but eating food just cooked up on a fire would go bad after a week. However maybe it'd offer worthwhile bonuses as opposed to jerky?
Also, slower walking speeds, yet other modes for travel. Surely we can fix up a motorcycle. And if we can upkeep a suit of power armor, why not a motorcycle? Companions either hop on back, or get their own separate motorcycle.

There is a mod with a working motorcycle you can upgrade it as well, I tried, not sure what I think as I really can ride a motorcycle so in game felt 'odd' so really best to try yourself,

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21899/?

Food degrading is like survival mod in Skyrim Needs and Deceases? Surprised that has not been made, or is it in the Survival Mode? Good idea for FO4, safe food is made by player so it could have time factor of a few days added so it go bad?

@EjdSmith, nice idea damaged armor but we lucky to get different look to upgraded armor now in FO4, Skyrim not change at all if I remember properly? Iike idea a lot to see damage but then need so many different versions of every armor needed, artwork easy, all the calculations as to what armor you have on now should look like would be very difficult, fun to see. I like armor looking 'used' not like raider armor is but real Power Armour with holes in it and welded plates, I make one for my use in FO3, looked like it was a mixture of BoS and Outcast with lots of repairs.

@kyra I think I understand, must say very quickly I never play on Very Hard or Survival. Survival not appeal to me I still want some relaxation in my game. Hard feel right for how much damage needed to take down another fighter in the game, I laugh out load at first FO3 raider i see on Very Hard in nothing armor when not fall down with one shotgun blast up close, she? kept coming, I laugh so much I crying. Try for balance and stick to what I know works, I like to try different characters which voice make impossible in FO4. TES I try many different things as is more a fantasy game, Fallout I use what I know will work in real life (should work) but in game we get shot once, twice and still keep going, that not very real most the time? Only in PA can that work or Kevlar but you still not want to get up very quickly, lol

New idea, that make me think ballistic weave, it stop bullets in game or protect but cannot work with things like clothes. Bullet cannot go through weave? bullet push cloth into person as well still get hurt bad maybe not dead, only really work with padding or on other piece of armor for strength to help stop bullet movement, weave on its own cannot do that. Needs vault armour with weave on top and if I had some more put weave on inside as well? I still go and join Rail Road just to get weave to put on proper armour not on clothes.


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I understand completely, Freyja.  Here's some background on me in turn - the reasoning I play survival and hard-modes is that I an very good at pattern finding  which means I can mentally  dismantle game ai behavior to its very basics and so it makes game soften too easy for me. I like to feel powerful, but I want to show off, and I cannot show off (to myself that is) when enemy poses no threat. But I have brought in some combat changes in my game -  for example head-shots are deadly. There is no way a raider will run towards me and survive that point blank head-shot. And I am considering to use a mod o remove completely legendary enemies, but it has potential danger to mess up my 800+ hour save on one of the characters I do not want to loose.   I do not find it any way immersive to need two head shots against legendary enemies. I do not mind enemies being able to one shot me - be it with molotovs, missiles, or any other trick - I like it; but I truly despise the idea of mutating  heads. And while I could accept mutating animals - I surely do not like mutating gunners. 

As for ballistic weave - I hate the very concept of it. And more I dislike how it is implemented. So to get most powerful armor-improvement I must work with a faction and then I must find role play reasoning why I want to destroy them after I have worked so long with them ? So I decided to go RP way and tied ballistic weave with armorer perk instead, instead of faction. 


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A weapon degradation system would have just amounted to busy work and slightly reduced carrying capacity, given how crafting works in this game.   Any repair system in Fallout 4 would have worked exactly like power armor repair works.   You would have to take your weapon to a weapon workbench (which you can find conveniently in virtually any location in the game) an fix it with a 'recipe' of junk components, like 2 aluminium, a screw, a spring and two steel.    

Players would simply take note of what materials their weapon needed for repairs and carry around a couple repairs worth of components.  Since weapon benches are everywhere, they would never actually be without a repaired weapon, the only real effect would be having a little less inventory space for carrying loot due to the repair parts they carried around.

I'm not sure it would have added anything worthwhile to the game.


Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.


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^^

one could make the same argument against weighted ammo, and hunger, thirst, and fatigue in survival mode.

or that the weapons upgrade system in fallout new vegas was more meaningful as you would actually have to find upgrade parts for your weapons and not just take a screw and bolt from here and there to upgrade it, by that same logic.

It would all depend on how it is implemented, even if using the workshop system this does not mean that they could not have implemented a system that would make repairs for specific weapons only possible by getting specific components from scrapping similar types of weapons for example.


So Vivec, who had a grain of Ayem's mercy, set about to teach Molag Bal in the ways of belly-magic. They took their spears out and compared them


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I always liked the repair mechanics, but I felt like it needed to be balanced.  Doing a lot of sword-work on stage (with actual, carbon steel weapons), I can safely to say that I can get a few hours of work out of a blade before it needs some care.  But that really chews the blades up, especially if one grade of steel is significantly better than the other.  A better bet is whet out the burrs at every full stop.  That really helps the long-term life of the blade.  Whenever there's a burr that needs a machine to smooth out, I know I'm loosing major surface area to ensure it's balanced after the grinding...which usually means more grinding.

The problem with Beth's past models is that your weapons and armor tended to go from 100% to completely broken in, like, 20 swings.  That's...a bit much.  Plus, I think having a single repair kit, hammer, whetstone, that lasts for a while would be far more sensible than carrying around 20 repair hammers or 10 spare hunting rifles.  I guess the rate of degradation and jamming that occurred in FO3 was fairly believable.  My brother-in-law is a Marine, and their rule is:  If you fire a weapon once, it needs to be cleaned.  If you only load a round into the chamber, it needs to be cleaned.  If you simply carry the rifle around, it needs to be cleaned.  If you haven't touched it all day, it needs to be cleaned.

I'd love to see repairing and maintaining gear return (perhaps in future "Survival Modes"), but I'd like to see more realistic degradation and have each repair tool last for at least 100 uses or so.  I also like the idea of being able to "repair" over 100%, sort of like getting a razor edge on a blade...or tweaking the sights of a gun very precisely.


Alright...I'm gonna count to -one-.


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Earning skill.  I still recall in Fo2 my tribal's first level up and she picks Energy Weapons.  Note at the time she didn't even know what a gun was ... but now she does more damage with Energy Weapons ... because.

FO always had this system and it always rubbed me the wrong way.  Could FO have a system like TES, where you gain in a skill by using it?  Sure they could.  There would be some tweaks to make work for sure but it makes a lot more sense IMO.

The lack of repair I don't have too much of a problem with.  I already don't have to tell my PC when to take a dump (for which I'm glad) so I have no problem assuming that if they are using a weapon they also know how to care for it.  NV was just crazy ridiculous about repair.  I have a few old WW1 rifles in my collection now and I can shoot them all day, clean them up when I'm done, and put them away for the next time.  Every shot made was deadly, the first shot and the last shot.  I didn't have to break down a similar gun for parts after every 50 shots.  The whole system was just FUBAR.  Again, if my PC is shooting a gun I can easily assume they know how to take care of it ... just like they know when and where to take a dump ... just like my TES PC's know how to care for their weapons without me making them do it.  So I have no problem with no repair system like those in older games.

The settlement system.  It is a whole lot of fun, but it isn't immersive in any way shape or form.  A building system is fine, but allow it to take time, require the need of settlers for help, if you're building materials are junk then the end result should reflect this.  Just needs totally reworked.  Again a lot of fun, probably spent hundreds of hours on it myself, it's just not immersive to be a demi-god of creation in a FO game.

Now there's a hundred things I could nit-pick on every quest in the game, but if you just wanted to fix a couple things to get more immersive, there's my list.