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Doom 10 berserk punches


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I activated berserk and spammed the fire button. I got 10 punches out before the berserk active ran out. That is a potential 750 damage active.

Do you think there should be an ammo count on how many punches you can throw with berserk? What do you think about a 2-3 punch max ammo count? Or do you like the current cooldown/reload between punches?


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That's not exactly how it works. His punches are much more spaced out when he is actually locked on to someone, especially if he has to lunge. You'll probably get 4 punches at most.


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Well compared to the pre - december patch, I say he is in a right spot now.750 damage seems like a bit too much but due to the stack increase on all champs and also now that he can be pummeled during his active, it's fine. 


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I liked the original implementation the most, actually. It required you to move well to get very close to someone to punch them. Current aimbot [censored] is still overpowered albeit far less so than before. I'd make him even faster in berserk and jumping even higher but removed the aimbot, but I guess it'll be too difficult to handle for noobs (which seems to be an ever-present concern of ID/Bethesda/Saber which is very much debatable...)


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@madmentat86 said:

I liked the original implementation the most, actually. It required you to move well to get very close to someone to punch them. Current aimbot [censored] is still overpowered albeit far less so than before. I'd make him even faster in berserk and jumping even higher but removed the aimbot, but I guess it'll be too difficult to handle for noobs (which seems to be an ever-present concern of ID/Bethesda/Saber which is very much debatable...)

You lose the noobs, you lose the game. simple. it needs to be a concern yes and Doom is also a popular newcomer pick.

Aside from that, yeah, I prefer the punches with no aimbot as well. I had learned to land the normal no aimbot punches just fine on the initial launch, to the point that I still hit people with those punches and not lunges even in later patches. I think the "I can jump to another ledge from bellow you and hit you superman style" is a little too much imo.


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Doom's double jump just doesn't fit this game and his ability is overpowered with to short a cool down. Another pay to win Champion.


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@ha2aron said:

You lose the noobs, you lose the game. simple. 

no, I'm afraid it is not at all that simple. You don't lose noobs only because they find the game "too tough" - that's completely delusional, it never worked like that in any game. There's a truckload of games out there which are notoriously difficult and yet they do not lack for noobs. It's delusional to think that Quake Champions is some uber-super-mega-skilled game and we the veterans are all gods among men and thus a community of superhumans that can play this difficult game and other poor deficient humans cannot and thus we must make it 'easier' for them. The game must be interesting and engaging for people to play it, there is no other requirement and difficulty doesn't really enter into equation. Some people may indeed leave because it's too tough - but it's by far not the biggest number and it's not the people that you would keep in any game.

 The harsh truth that we players have to wake up to along with Bethesda: the gamemodes that are offered, a set of rules and victory condition - are simply not interesting enough for anyone other than people who were playing all this for 20 years. And even we are playing it only because there's nothing else offered. We're beating the same dead horse and it's been dead for a while. That's why f-ing Clan Arena was the most popular mode for QL (so many people were pissed off by that instead of trying to understand WHY). That's why reworking duel format was a good idea, that's why Sacrifice was a good idea - on paper - but still needs to be heavily changed to get there if it's ever to be something interesting to play. 

All the "too tough for noobs" delusions are simply a detriment for this to have any chance as a new big title. No, it's not why this game isn't so popular.


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@madmentat86 said:

@ha2aron said:
You lose the noobs, you lose the game. simple. 
no, I'm afraid it is not at all that simple. You don't lose noobs only because they find the game "too tough" - that's completely delusional, it never worked like that in any game. There's a truckload of games out there which are notoriously difficult and yet they do not lack for noobs. It's delusional to think that Quake Champions is some uber-super-mega-skilled game and we the veterans are all gods among men and thus a community of superhumans that can play this difficult game and other poor deficient humans cannot and thus we must make it 'easier' for them. The game must be interesting and engaging for people to play it, there is no other requirement and difficulty doesn't really enter into equation. Some people may indeed leave because it's too tough - but it's by far not the biggest number and it's not the people that you would keep in any game.
 The harsh truth that we players have to wake up to along with Bethesda: the gamemodes that are offered, a set of rules and victory condition - are simply not interesting enough for anyone other than people who were playing all this for 20 years. And even we are playing it only because there's nothing else offered. We're beating the same dead horse and it's been dead for a while. That's why f-ing Clan Arena was the most popular mode for QL (so many people were pissed off by that instead of trying to understand WHY). That's why reworking duel format was a good idea, that's why Sacrifice was a good idea - on paper - but still needs to be heavily changed to get there if it's ever to be something interesting to play. 
All the "too tough for noobs" delusions are simply a detriment for this to have any chance as a new big title. No, it's not why this game isn't so popular.

 Im sorry but I disagree on some points. I agree on others.

A game needs to be fun. Many difficult games are fun regardless for several reasons depending on the title. People stick to them because they can still enjoy it on a low level. Popularity also plays a big part. Even if it is hard, people will stick to it because it is popular.

Dota 2 for example. It gives you the option say to play vs bots. I spent my first week on that game playing bots cause I didnt want to get overwhelmed. By the time I started playing vs ppl I was already having fun with the game. With such a large crowd of players as well, it was also easier for it to match me to ppl on my level. That game has pretty much 1 mode (until mods started dropping on it) and it was still fun.

Something else like Dark Souls on the other hand is SP, you are challenging yourself against AI. Its a different challenge and people love the challenge too.

Quake is a lot of fun no matter the mode if you are able to at least do something. No bots in the game is a real issue. And with tryhards out there its a pain. Was in a tdm yesterday 2v4. Me and my team mate simply quit because the enemy team thought it was a great chance to steamroll us like try hards taking 2v1 fights on us all the time. And they were also better players. It was the first game I have quit in like 4 months. (Edit, the map was also Awoken, rip)

You need to cater to the casual / fun / newcomer side as well. There are plenty people that drop out of Quake because its too hard. I dont know what world you live in mate, but I hear their complaints daily. Been trying to get a few friends back into QC myself (OWatchers) and their reply is always "no way man, that !@#$ is crazy thanks but no thanks!". I am trying to explain to them what you are, that the game isnt as hard as they make it out to be. But you try changing their mind when they have tried FFA and get 3 kills to 30 deaths. You seriously think that does not affect newcomers?

Having that said, like I mentioned, I do not agree to mechanics being tailored to newcomers. And they are not for the most part aside from auto-lock punch things here and there which, again like I mentioned, I would be happy if they got rid of.
But saying that the game will not do well from catering to more casual players is completely wrong.

Game modes game shmodes, the thing is that QC can be fun even with 2 game modes alone. The problem is getting people to enjoy those modes and to enjoy those modes it really is important that they don't get steam rolled. The game this way can remain a high competitiv title, but have a large enough audience that plays casually as well vs other ppl of same skill.

I was this close to uninstalling 2 days ago because of this reason. And I am a person that loves Quake and everything about it. I am a person that knows about "bad days and good days", etc. But when you spend 3hrs to get a win for your daily on TDM and you are always placed in teams were you are getting rekt, then it gets to you mate. Even if you are not a newcomer. So, imagine how annoying it is for a newcomer. You ARE losing ppl like that. Its a fact.
(I was not playing FFA or Insta cause Im not good enough to ever win in those period, I think I have like a total of 5 to 10 FFA wins in over 1000 games, so TDM was the only option for it unless I wanted to spend 3hrs in Sac instead on waiting queues, lol).

Yesterday, on the other hand, more ppl were online? More ppl of my skill? I had plenty of fun and seemed to be matched consantly with ppl on my lvl. I lost a lot, won a bit, but it was so much fun. I even was fighting for first place in a few FFA games. Lost and came second both times but I still had crazy fun. I even got a 1st medal in a TDM match were our team still lost but I had most kills of all 8 players. Fun! You make the game fun, ppl stay.

Dumbing mechanics down is not the way to go, neither adding game modes every week (a good team mode is needed though, for sure).
Having enough ppl to play against their own level is how you fix it, and even more so, with adding bots.

CA was also popular because its again, catering to noobs 100%
So that kinda goes against your argument. You worry about no pickups, items, nothing. You start on full stack, all weapons. The whole point of the mode was to completely chop aspects of the game needing more skill and making it easy. That is why it was popular.

So when you say "so many people were pissed off by that instead of trying to understand WHY", actually, we understand why, because it is making the game easier. So, youre kinda stepping on my point there :)


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>> Game modes game shmodes, the thing is that QC can be fun even with 2 game modes alone. The problem is getting people to enjoy those modes and to enjoy those modes it really is important that they don't get steam rolled. The game this way can remain a high competitiv title, but have a large enough audience that plays casually as well vs other ppl of same skill.

Yeah, right. Fact: Current Quake gamemodes implementation is [censored]. This is why no one plays them anymore outside of Quake. Again: it's a delusion to think that if people will have perfect matchmaking they will like the game automatically even though TDM is [censored], Duel is boring to watch e.t.c. Like they did in QL, right, that's why the game was played and watched by some mighty 1000 people. WOW. That's why vast majority of people who played QW, Q2, Q3, Unreal e.t.c have moved on to other games.

I never said Quake isn't losing people who think it's too tough for them or that there are few of them. I said those people are NOT what creates the game's popularity. And I'm correct in that. Chess is brutal to noobs. Even a 1400-rated player with at least some basic formal training will absolutely mop the floor with the beginner with almost no chance whatsoever for the latter to win even 1 game out of 10. Chess is more popular worldwide than Quake ever was or will be. StarCraft is brutal to noobs. Yet still more people play it then ever were in Quake and it even became a national sport for a whole country.

Should there be tutorials and bots and better matchmaking so that less people get frustrated with the difficulty? Oh, sure. Is it what decides the game's popularity? ROFL, of course not. Look at the [censored] PUBG. You wait for a minute for the game to start, then you fall for 20 seconds, then you scramble frantically for anything to defend yourself and you die in 5 seconds and start all over again because somebody found a gun earlier. 50 times like that until you start understanding what to do. Very "noob-friendly", yeah. Also even if you do everything correctly - you have one of THOUSANDS of cheaters nearby and you're dead again. Very not frustrating and noob-friendly! Lol where's PUBG in popularity and where's Quake. Or Counter-Strike. One missed flash - your whole team is dead. And then two rounds more in a row you fight with pistols vs awp because neither you nor anyone in your team has money. And it can even be not yours but someone else's mistake. Encore, encore. It doesn't matter whom you play against, the price of mistake is ultimate nonetheless. You don't check a corner and any complete noob kills you in 1 shot. How much more those games are popular than Quake?..

Also, CA wasn't "catering to noobs". It removed one part of the game and created another - with much faster and free movement and team tactics different to those in TDM. Simpler mechanics do not make the game "easier" - don't make that mistake, it's folly. It's like saying that GO is easier than chess because it has less rules and you don't have to worry about different pieces. This is wrong on so many levels, lol.

Anyway, all of this is complete offtopic. Perhaps I'll create a separate thread for all this.

Then again, perhaps not. Nobody listens anyway.


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@madmentat86 snap! Sorry man I didnt see your reply because it didnt have a notification!
Going to come back later and read it to reply 👍


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@sed1tion said:

Doom's double jump just doesn't fit this game

 What a nice job it is, being a developer - you get to decide what fits in the game and what doesn't...


Playin' gamz. Teachin' nubz.


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@thenoobzmaster said:

@sed1tion said:
Doom's double jump just doesn't fit this game
 What a nice job it is, being a developer - you get to decide what fits in the game and what doesn't...

 And the players will decide if it was good or bad by either playing it or not. Not camp seems to be wining.


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Like 5 if your lucky. 

It should be multi-targeted as in I jump in middle of 3 people,I smack all 3 people. Thats how it use to be, thats how it was working as intended, thats before they nerfed him.


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@sed1tion said:

@thenoobzmaster said:
@sed1tion said:
Doom's double jump just doesn't fit this game
 What a nice job it is, being a developer - you get to decide what fits in the game and what doesn't...
 And the players will decide if it was good or bad by either playing it or not. Not camp seems to be wining.

 The amount of players picking DOOM Slayer says otherwise.


Playin' gamz. Teachin' nubz.


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It never worked like that. It was single target always, and when it first came out the lock on didn't even work.


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@ocrudacreeper said:

It never worked like that. It was single target always, and when it first came out the lock on didn't even work.

 Yep xD


Playin' gamz. Teachin' nubz.


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@thenoobzmaster said:

@sed1tion said:
@thenoobzmaster said:
@sed1tion said:
Doom's double jump just doesn't fit this game
 What a nice job it is, being a developer - you get to decide what fits in the game and what doesn't...
 And the players will decide if it was good or bad by either playing it or not. Not camp seems to be wining.
 The amount of players picking DOOM Slayer says otherwise.

 And the players will decide if it was good or bad  game by either playing it or not.

Of course players are picking DOOM, it gives you free kills and mobility not found in all the other heroes to avoid the most used weapon in the game.


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@sed1tion said:

@thenoobzmaster said:
@sed1tion said:
@thenoobzmaster said:
@sed1tion said:
Doom's double jump just doesn't fit this game
 What a nice job it is, being a developer - you get to decide what fits in the game and what doesn't...
 And the players will decide if it was good or bad by either playing it or not. Not camp seems to be wining.
 The amount of players picking DOOM Slayer says otherwise.
 And the players will decide if it was good or bad  game by either playing it or not.
Of course players are picking DOOM, it gives you free kills and mobility not found in all the other heroes to avoid the most used weapon in the game.

 1. You're now inconsistent with your own logic.

2. Calm down. Every time I see a DOOM Slayer going berserk, I just whip out gauntlet and punish him for each punch, staying as close as I can. Sometimes he gets to do lunges that hit before he's even close, but mostly he has to touch me, which means he touches the blade.


Playin' gamz. Teachin' nubz.